In my last post my original intent was to defend the fact, yes the historically documentable fact that this nation had definite Christian foundations. I was attempting to do so in response to Brannon Howse and Chris Pinto who have beliefs to the contrary. Part of my desire was for people to read a blog post by John Eidsmoe, a Constitutional scholar, historian, and Bible teacher/theologian (his blogs may be found at www.morallaw.org/blog/author/john/) and in doing so read his response to Chris Pinto’s most recent documentary. I obviously struck a nerve with some and have had some respond offering contrary views. I have not allowed all of the responses to be viewable due to the fact that some contained web addresses that would tend to teach things that are based on what I would label as poor exegesis and a misunderstanding of the Scriptures.
One of the responses that I received was from a man who, as far as I can tell from his response, believes that we should just give up on making any difference in our society. The following is his response in full. Only the web address that he included has been removed.
I believe that Brannon Howse is correct in his assessment of Glen Beck and David Barton. The both of them are promoting lies that can be clearly documented concerning the founding fathers. Why are they supporting an agenda to regain the culture anyway, when the culture war is clearly lost? They have gained nothing in this approach over the decades, and it us utterly unbiblical. The world is going to do exactly what the Bible says in it’s continual heading towards a one-world global order. America will lose its sovereignty and all attempts to unite false teachers with the clear truths of Scripture are futile and an abomination to the Lord. Christians are to be separate from those teaching a false gospel and to simply preach the true Gospel.
To this I wish to respond. First of all, I made known my disagreement with David Barton’s assessment that Glenn Beck’s Mormon beliefs are Christian. However, that seems to have been lost on some. As to the assertion that what they “are promoting are lies that can be clearly documented concerning the founding fathers,” I say, okay. Then document it. It hasn’t been, so do it. The facts concerning Pinto’s documentary are just as Dr. Eidsmoe has stated;
Pinto’s use of quotations by these men (select founding fathers) is extremely selective, so much so that the film is more notable for what it doesn’t include than for what it does include. These selective, often out-of-context quotations, presented with a background of ominous-sounding music, create a sense in the viewer’s mind that something very sinister is afoot. Pinto tends to cite a single quotation as though it represents the person’s thinking over a lifetime; he fails to consider the fact that as people grow and study and think, their ideas change over the years. (http://morallaw.org/blog/2012/01/hidden-faith-of-the-founding-fathers-who-were-they-hiding-it-from/)
The type of argument presented by Pinto in this case cannot be viewed as documenting anything but his view of what the founders were saying with the intent of producing a conclusion that agrees with said view.
Secondly, the responder states, “Why are they supporting an agenda to regain the culture anyway, when the culture war is clearly lost? They have gained nothing in this approach over the decades, and it us utterly unbiblical.” I assume that they are supporting such an agenda because they love this country and the freedom that it, by God’s grace, has allowed its citizens to enjoy for over 200 years. That’s why I am interested in this fight. We have freedoms provided by God, whether you believe that this nation was founded on Christian principles or not, and codified in our founding documents, i.e. the Bill of Rights. Those who are attempting to take those rights away are law-breakers. They are in violation of the founding documents that outline the boundaries of the Federal Government and therefore they are in violation of the law. Now, surely you would agree that Scripture has much to say about God’s attitude concerning those who violate the rights of citizens in violation of His Law (e.g., Ex. 23:6; Deut. 16:19). That was for Israel. Yet it clearly reveals His thoughts on justice, righteousness, and lawfulness. You can also go to the books of the Psalms and Proverbs, books not limited strictly to Israel but revealing general truths for all of life (see Ps. 146:7; Prov. 8:15; 17:23; 21:3). Those of us who desire righteousness and justice to be executed in accordance with the laws of this nation do so based on solid biblical foundations. Therefore, we are engaged in the fight of our lives trying to preserve the freedom of people such as the one who wrote this particular response to me in order that he can keep writing such things. As to his assertion that such a struggle is unbiblical, that is absolutely absurd. The aforementioned verses alone attest to that, but Jesus also spoke to a similar if not exact situation. Jesus told His disciples that they were salt and light, and then He said, “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 5:13-16). Being salt and light should result in glory to God. Somewhere in the life of those who as a result of us being salt and light will glorify the Father there will be a change of thinking which should result in an eventual change in behavior resulting in the effecting of the culture. Therefore, I will assert that it is the mindset that you should remove yourself from society that is unbiblical and not the mindset of we who are trying to preserve liberty and freedom.
By the way, the ideals of liberty and freedom in their true form are strictly Judeo-Christian. It is the Judeo-Christian worldview that brought about the liberty and freedom of this nation as seen in its founding. It is the worldview of the secular enlightenment that produced the libertine mindset of the French Revolution, and which so many have today. The founders, yes those founders, are the ones who taught that true freedom can only be exercised within the confines of personal responsibility. Once the idea of personal responsibility is gone, libertinism takes hold, and, surprise, we have our current society.
Finally, where is the biblical teaching that states that when the outcome is going to be negative regardless of what one does then that one should give up? On the contrary there are many examples in Scripture where the outcome is predicted as negative but the recipient of the command to act is told to do so regardless. Look at Ezekiel. In Ezekiel 3:4-7 God instructed him to go to the house of Israel and deliver His message and He instructs Ezekiel to do so despite the fact that they were not going to listen. God said, “But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me” (Ezekiel 3:6b-7a).
Paul was forewarned by prophetic message that if he persisted in going to Jerusalem that he would be arrested and turned over to the Romans (Acts 21:8-14). What was Paul’s response? Verse 14 states: “And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, “The will of the Lord be done!”
I will restate my earlier comment; the idea that we should withdraw to our bunkers and hunker down because America is going to hell in a handbasket is the unbibilical way of thinking. We should continue to stand for freedom and liberty based on God’s word. We should fight for righteousness and justice in accordance with our Constitution. We must proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ then teach disciples to live with a biblical worldview, which should result in a change in our culture. And if it doesn’t happen over night, we keep on working. And if it never happens at all, we keep on working. We know that Scripture teaches that things will continue in a state of decline, even within the Church itself. Nowhere does it say that we cease being salt and light.
I conclude with this; regardless of what you believe concerning the founding of our nation and the Founders Scripture dictates that we are to be involved in our world and affect change. Not doing so is to live in rebellion to the word of God.
Here I stand. I can do nothing other. God help me. I pray this helps.